QC and SG accountability (17/8/18)
We talked about reactions Pastor Daniel's sermon topic on homosexuality over the past few weeks. The overall feeling was that Biblical clarity regarding this topic was appreciated. Scripture teaches that homosexuality is:
1. A sin (e.g. Lev 18:22, 20:13, Ro 1:26-27, 1 Ti 1:8-11, 1 Co 6:9)
2. A sin not amongst other sins ( 1 Ti 1:10, Ro 1:29-29)
3. A judgement(Ro 1:26-27) - "God gave them up".
The preceding reason ("for this reason" Ro 1:26) Paul cites (Ro 1:22-25) as the reason why homosexuality is a judgement is because the greatest idol in our lives is the one in the mirror - humanity loves, serves and worships itself above the true God.
So man's love for man is seen in the living parable of homosexual relationships: instead of the male giving seed to the female and engendering life (and this is why we also speak of God primarily in 'male' terms - He is the giver, and the Church/Bride the recipient). the union of male and male as well as female and female are both procreative and spiritual dead ends.
I shared some thoughts about homosexuality that I had found helpful:
1. Homosexually oriented people, like heterosexually oriented people, do not have sex on their mind all the time - it's fine to behave normally around them!
2. The narrative of the LBGTQ lobby of "Freedom to love" is attractive but misleading. No one promotes paedophilia, incest and bestiality, and yet all these categories of sexual activity can also be justified in terms of "freedom to love". Where is the line drawn?
3.All sin is genetic. An inborn tendency to homosexuality is no different from an inborn tendency to lust, or steal, or be antisocial.
4. Let me add here that the gospel is life and joy and power to break all sin - 1 Co 6:11 says, "such were some of you"! The gospel tells us that we are not trapped by sexual orientation, or indeed by the need for sexual expression. We have freedom in Christ from all sin. The approach to our homosexual friends has to express the looking beyond sexual orientation to find their ultimate identity.
We spoke about AIDS as a possible expression of Ro 1:25. In theological terms, both natural (earthquakes, storms, tsunamis, plagues, mosquitoes etc.) evil and moral (murder, rape, violence, injustice, oppression etc.) by peoples are an outcome of the Fall. So in this sense AIDS is an outcome of sin. But we must be careful to note that not all personal suffering is due to sin (see the whole book of Job), although in some cases it certainly can be the case (Jn 5:14). Doubtless sinful behaviours (gluttony, addictions, promiscuity) increase the chance of disease and sufferin, but this is not an invariable link.
We moved on to speak about sharing with friends who have a Buddhist faith. I mentioned Ravi Zacharias' contention that a complete world view should explain 1) origin 2) meaning 3) morality and 4) destiny. It is difficult to explain morality without a personal God - it becomes a social construct otherwise.
We also mentioned that fact that when the Bible speaks of God 'calling', there is both an 'external call' that is not always heeded ("Many are called but few are chosen", Mt 22:14), and an 'internal call' that accomplishes God's sovereign purpose (Ro 8:30-32). In Calvinism God does not irresistibly call the unwilling, nor does He deny heaven to the eager. All who come can only come because of the compulsion of the Father (Jn 6:44), not because they seek Him and fail to find, since no one seeks after God in their natural state (Ro 3:11).
1. A sin (e.g. Lev 18:22, 20:13, Ro 1:26-27, 1 Ti 1:8-11, 1 Co 6:9)
2. A sin not amongst other sins ( 1 Ti 1:10, Ro 1:29-29)
3. A judgement(Ro 1:26-27) - "God gave them up".
The preceding reason ("for this reason" Ro 1:26) Paul cites (Ro 1:22-25) as the reason why homosexuality is a judgement is because the greatest idol in our lives is the one in the mirror - humanity loves, serves and worships itself above the true God.
So man's love for man is seen in the living parable of homosexual relationships: instead of the male giving seed to the female and engendering life (and this is why we also speak of God primarily in 'male' terms - He is the giver, and the Church/Bride the recipient). the union of male and male as well as female and female are both procreative and spiritual dead ends.
I shared some thoughts about homosexuality that I had found helpful:
1. Homosexually oriented people, like heterosexually oriented people, do not have sex on their mind all the time - it's fine to behave normally around them!
2. The narrative of the LBGTQ lobby of "Freedom to love" is attractive but misleading. No one promotes paedophilia, incest and bestiality, and yet all these categories of sexual activity can also be justified in terms of "freedom to love". Where is the line drawn?
3.All sin is genetic. An inborn tendency to homosexuality is no different from an inborn tendency to lust, or steal, or be antisocial.
4. Let me add here that the gospel is life and joy and power to break all sin - 1 Co 6:11 says, "such were some of you"! The gospel tells us that we are not trapped by sexual orientation, or indeed by the need for sexual expression. We have freedom in Christ from all sin. The approach to our homosexual friends has to express the looking beyond sexual orientation to find their ultimate identity.
We spoke about AIDS as a possible expression of Ro 1:25. In theological terms, both natural (earthquakes, storms, tsunamis, plagues, mosquitoes etc.) evil and moral (murder, rape, violence, injustice, oppression etc.) by peoples are an outcome of the Fall. So in this sense AIDS is an outcome of sin. But we must be careful to note that not all personal suffering is due to sin (see the whole book of Job), although in some cases it certainly can be the case (Jn 5:14). Doubtless sinful behaviours (gluttony, addictions, promiscuity) increase the chance of disease and sufferin, but this is not an invariable link.
We moved on to speak about sharing with friends who have a Buddhist faith. I mentioned Ravi Zacharias' contention that a complete world view should explain 1) origin 2) meaning 3) morality and 4) destiny. It is difficult to explain morality without a personal God - it becomes a social construct otherwise.
We also mentioned that fact that when the Bible speaks of God 'calling', there is both an 'external call' that is not always heeded ("Many are called but few are chosen", Mt 22:14), and an 'internal call' that accomplishes God's sovereign purpose (Ro 8:30-32). In Calvinism God does not irresistibly call the unwilling, nor does He deny heaven to the eager. All who come can only come because of the compulsion of the Father (Jn 6:44), not because they seek Him and fail to find, since no one seeks after God in their natural state (Ro 3:11).
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