QC and SG accountability (24/5/19)
Eugene and Joyce shared stories of how people ill with advanced cancer had turned to Christ. I asked whether it was right that Christians should share the gospel with those who were physically weak and emotionally vulnerable - would this not be wrong? Our answer was that we are not told to stop sharing the gospel with people. Who knows but that it was God who granted them an illness out of loving grace, rather than out of anger and judgement, if the illness led to their salvation? We are to "be ready in season and out of season" (2 Ti 4:2) - not to say we preach and share at times inconvenient to people, but times inconvenient to us.
I shared the touching Christian story of the birdcage:
There once was a man named George Thomas, a pastor in a small New England town. One Easter Sunday morning he came to the Church carrying a rusty, bent, old bird cage, and set it by the pulpit. Several eyebrows were raised and, as if in response, Pastor Thomas began to speak.
"I was walking through town yesterday when I saw a young boy coming toward me, swinging this bird cage. On the bottom of the cage were three little wild birds, shivering with cold and fright. I stopped the lad and asked, "What you got there son?"
"Just some old birds," came the reply.
"What are you gonna do with them?" I asked.
"Take 'em home and have fun with 'em. I'm gonna tease 'em and pull out their feathers to make 'em fight. I'm gonna have a real good time."
"But you'll get tired of those birds sooner or later. What will you do then?"
"Oh, I got some cats. They like birds. I'll take 'em to them."
The pastor was silent for a moment. "How much do you want for those birds, son?"
"Huh??!!! Why, you don't want them birds, mister. They're just plain old field birds. They don't sing - they ain't even pretty!"
"How much?"
The boy sized up the pastor as if he were crazy and said, "$10?"
The pastor reached in his pocket and took out a ten dollar bill. He placed it in the boy's hand. In a flash, the boy was gone.
The pastor picked up the cage and gently carried it to the end of the alley where there was a tree and a grassy spot. Setting the cage down, he opened the door, and by softly tapping the bars persuaded the birds out, setting them free.
Well, that explained the empty bird cage on the pulpit, and then the pastor began to tell this story.
One day Satan and Jesus were having a conversation. Satan had just come from the Garden of Eden, and he was gloating and boasting.
"Yes, sir, I just caught the world full of people down there. Set me a trap, used bait I knew they couldn't resist. Got 'em all!"
"What are you going to do with them?" Jesus asked.
"Oh, I'm gonna have fun! I'm gonna teach them how to marry and divorce each other. How to hate and abuse each other. How to drink and smoke and curse. How to invent guns and bombs and kill each other. I'm really gonna have fun!"
"And what will you do when you get done with them?", Jesus asked.
"Oh, I'll kill 'em."
"How much do you want for them?"
"Oh, you don't want those people. They ain't no good. Why, you take them and they'll just hate you. They'll spit on you, curse you and kill you!! You don't want those people!!"
"How much?"
Satan looked at Jesus and sneered, "All your tears, and all your blood." Jesus paid the price!
We agree that this story illustrates the sacrificial love of our Saviour! But I asked: "What's wrong with it?". The birds were redeemed (Redemption = a word from the slave market, when the value of the slave is paid for). Jesus indeed paid a ransom for us (Mt 20:28, Mk 10:45) But redeemed from whom? The story suggests that it was Satan. This is quite heretical - we know that we were indeed redeemed, but from the righteous wrath of God, not from Satan (Rom 3:23-26). Jesus' blood paid the price of our debt to God. God put Jesus forward as a 'propitiation' (= an appeasement of wrath to restore a relationship) to show His righteousness. As a good judge He cannot but punish the guilty. So how does He maintain His righteousness AND save us at the same time? (i.e. how is He both 'just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus'?) The answer is that in the Cross God reconciled the world to himself (2 Cor 5:29). Satan is a created being and is in no position to bargain with God.
On a related note then, we asked: how were the OT saints saved before the Cross? The answer is not by animal sacrifices (Heb 10:4) or by keeping the law (Gal 3:11). As we are, they were saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9) as Abraham was, centuries before the law and the sacrificial system came through Moses (Rom 4:1-3). So they looked by faith beyond animal sacrifices to God's forbearance (Rom 3:25) and His mercy, ahead to the Cross that they could glimpse dimly. We see much more clearly as we look behind to Calvary. On the Cross Jesus took the sin of all who would place their faith in Him who lived both before and after the Cross.
We asked how we should respond to a non-Christian's question about worship. Amelia helpfully said that everyone worships something or someone. I asked whether God was 'hard-up for worship. We think poorly of people who demand that they be worshiped. Why do we not think poorly of God?
I said that 1) God does not need worship (Ac 17:25, Is 1:11, Ps 50:9-10, Mic 6:7). 2) God commands worship. 3) Worship is the only way man, the creature, relates to his Creator. All we do with Him - our whole life - is worship. 4) Failure to worship God - to hold something of greater value and worth than God - means we worship an idol. (c.f. Rom 11:22-23). The greatest idol we have is the man-shaped one we see in the mirror! 5) If God were not to command us to worship Him, we would never find true purpose and joy, which are found only in our right relationship of worship of Him.
I shared the touching Christian story of the birdcage:
There once was a man named George Thomas, a pastor in a small New England town. One Easter Sunday morning he came to the Church carrying a rusty, bent, old bird cage, and set it by the pulpit. Several eyebrows were raised and, as if in response, Pastor Thomas began to speak.
"I was walking through town yesterday when I saw a young boy coming toward me, swinging this bird cage. On the bottom of the cage were three little wild birds, shivering with cold and fright. I stopped the lad and asked, "What you got there son?"
"Just some old birds," came the reply.
"What are you gonna do with them?" I asked.
"Take 'em home and have fun with 'em. I'm gonna tease 'em and pull out their feathers to make 'em fight. I'm gonna have a real good time."
"But you'll get tired of those birds sooner or later. What will you do then?"
"Oh, I got some cats. They like birds. I'll take 'em to them."
The pastor was silent for a moment. "How much do you want for those birds, son?"
"Huh??!!! Why, you don't want them birds, mister. They're just plain old field birds. They don't sing - they ain't even pretty!"
"How much?"
The boy sized up the pastor as if he were crazy and said, "$10?"
The pastor reached in his pocket and took out a ten dollar bill. He placed it in the boy's hand. In a flash, the boy was gone.
The pastor picked up the cage and gently carried it to the end of the alley where there was a tree and a grassy spot. Setting the cage down, he opened the door, and by softly tapping the bars persuaded the birds out, setting them free.
Well, that explained the empty bird cage on the pulpit, and then the pastor began to tell this story.
One day Satan and Jesus were having a conversation. Satan had just come from the Garden of Eden, and he was gloating and boasting.
"Yes, sir, I just caught the world full of people down there. Set me a trap, used bait I knew they couldn't resist. Got 'em all!"
"What are you going to do with them?" Jesus asked.
"Oh, I'm gonna have fun! I'm gonna teach them how to marry and divorce each other. How to hate and abuse each other. How to drink and smoke and curse. How to invent guns and bombs and kill each other. I'm really gonna have fun!"
"And what will you do when you get done with them?", Jesus asked.
"Oh, I'll kill 'em."
"How much do you want for them?"
"Oh, you don't want those people. They ain't no good. Why, you take them and they'll just hate you. They'll spit on you, curse you and kill you!! You don't want those people!!"
"How much?"
Satan looked at Jesus and sneered, "All your tears, and all your blood." Jesus paid the price!
We agree that this story illustrates the sacrificial love of our Saviour! But I asked: "What's wrong with it?". The birds were redeemed (Redemption = a word from the slave market, when the value of the slave is paid for). Jesus indeed paid a ransom for us (Mt 20:28, Mk 10:45) But redeemed from whom? The story suggests that it was Satan. This is quite heretical - we know that we were indeed redeemed, but from the righteous wrath of God, not from Satan (Rom 3:23-26). Jesus' blood paid the price of our debt to God. God put Jesus forward as a 'propitiation' (= an appeasement of wrath to restore a relationship) to show His righteousness. As a good judge He cannot but punish the guilty. So how does He maintain His righteousness AND save us at the same time? (i.e. how is He both 'just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus'?) The answer is that in the Cross God reconciled the world to himself (2 Cor 5:29). Satan is a created being and is in no position to bargain with God.
On a related note then, we asked: how were the OT saints saved before the Cross? The answer is not by animal sacrifices (Heb 10:4) or by keeping the law (Gal 3:11). As we are, they were saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9) as Abraham was, centuries before the law and the sacrificial system came through Moses (Rom 4:1-3). So they looked by faith beyond animal sacrifices to God's forbearance (Rom 3:25) and His mercy, ahead to the Cross that they could glimpse dimly. We see much more clearly as we look behind to Calvary. On the Cross Jesus took the sin of all who would place their faith in Him who lived both before and after the Cross.
We asked how we should respond to a non-Christian's question about worship. Amelia helpfully said that everyone worships something or someone. I asked whether God was 'hard-up for worship. We think poorly of people who demand that they be worshiped. Why do we not think poorly of God?
I said that 1) God does not need worship (Ac 17:25, Is 1:11, Ps 50:9-10, Mic 6:7). 2) God commands worship. 3) Worship is the only way man, the creature, relates to his Creator. All we do with Him - our whole life - is worship. 4) Failure to worship God - to hold something of greater value and worth than God - means we worship an idol. (c.f. Rom 11:22-23). The greatest idol we have is the man-shaped one we see in the mirror! 5) If God were not to command us to worship Him, we would never find true purpose and joy, which are found only in our right relationship of worship of Him.
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